To: tenchi@ML.usagi.org Subject: Re: anime-int.com's new look From: Shuichi Koga Date: 01 May 1999 13:11:05 -0700 Message-ID: Reply-To: tenchi@ML.usagi.org X-ML-archive: http://www.win.ne.jp/~doi/ML/ Precedence: bulk Written, or spoken? Japanese the spoken language is very old, well over 2000 years old. There is some very interesting thought that it is descended from Altaic languages (where Turkish, Mongolian, and Korean originate from) with lots of mixtures of Austronesian languages (South Pacific). I don't know where Chinese the spoken language is believed to have come from, however. Japanese the written language is an interesting mish-mash of samplings of Chinese characters coming through the ages, as well as a native style (hiragana). The first big wave of Chinese culture (including language and Buddhism) probably came at the behest of Shotoku Taishi and others in the Soga clan, approximately during the 6-7th century AD. My understanding is that the Chinese version was used primarily by the Buddhist monks and men in the Emperial Court; women primarily used the hiragana system (the Tale of Genji is written mostly in hiragana). I vaguely remember reading somewhere that women actually designed the hiragana system, but I don't remember a source for it. Anyways, oftentimes, a kanji character has at least two readings, a native Japanese reading (which could've come that way for any number of reasons), and multiple Chinese readings, depending on how the character or idea was spoken in China at certain times during its history (again, 6-7th century is a good starting point, but there have been more than a few times when a large influx of Chinese culture was imported). Is that traditional or simplified Chinese? I have no idea when Chinese started being delineated as such. I don't think the Japanese are currently actively acquiring Chinese characters (usually they occur as a result of direct cultural interaction between the two countries, and Japan and China aren't exactly on amicable terms at the moment). Japanese the language has also underwent a lot of changes for reasons of nationalism (such as during the late 19th-early 20th century, when there was time when Japan was doing language-wise something similar to what the French today are doing), and pragmatism (such as in 1946 and later (1981?)). The Japanese language currently is definitely importing extensively from Western cultures (such as "naui" -> Now-ey -> hip, chic, modern). What they've done with English can sometimes be very, uh, amusing ^_^. Anyways, there are an amazing number of references on Japanese the language and how it's changed over the years. Here are some starting points: http://www.llc.washington.edu/uwlanguage/ http://www-japan.mit.edu/index.html Shuichi >>>>> "Billy" == Billy Ting writes: > [snip] > Ok, one final thought. For those Chinese/Japanese out there who might > understand what I'm talking about. Since Japanese originated from Chinese > some of the characters are the same in the Japanese language (hence people > like me may be able to read some of the words). Are the Chinese characters > in the Japanese language in simplified style (jieng tee) or traditional > style (fang tee)? I've seen some of the simplified style Chinese > characters on the page, does this mean the Japanese are still acquiring > Chinese characters into their language even today? Unfortunately, I think > I've confused myself, anybody who may have been able to understand this, > and then there are people who have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. > -Billy Ting > "A field of ice . . . ice is such a nuisance." > -Izumi Maki (Nadesico) > http://welcome.to/ElHazard || http://welcome.to/TenchiMuyo -- ====================================================================== = Shuichi Koga (That's Shoo eechi) : SKoga@CS.Washington.EDU = Graduate Computer Science and Engineering, University of Washington = URL: http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/skoga/ ======================================================================