Re: Pierre (ML WARNING: I am in my Long-Windedtm Mode ^_^)


to ranma@ML.usagi.org
from Ronald Spillman <ron@netset.com>
subject Re: Pierre (ML WARNING: I am in my Long-Windedtm Mode ^_^)
date Thu, 04 May 2000 03:54:10 -0400
>
> From: "Pierre Bancov" <banc2a01@uni-trier.de>
>
> As for duty, I'd agree with you on the general principle, but not as
> fans or otaku (*whines a little about wannabe experts that
> published books full of -crucial- mistakes*). At best, I'd say we
> have a duty as "veteran".
>

Totally agreed.

>
>
>
> >If it's successful, we may get altered, edited,
> >censored, and otherwise different versions of our favorite series.
> >Are you, any of you, prepared to make that sacrifice for the sake
> >of getting it on the air?
>
> I like the rethorical figure, but that was unneeded. I think the
> answer is obvious enough. Although of course that doesn't prevent
> companies from making errors.
> But it made them change their approach. Fair enough. Just a tad
> too expensive.

Referring to SoW, this has been going on since I was a little kid
(censoring, cutting, whatever). Tetsuwan Atom (Astroboy) and
Jungle Taitei (Kimba) were regularly cut, entire episodes were
chucked, many times because of that in the US could be considered
unflattering racial stereotypes, frequently against blacks. Tezuka
Osamu-sensei mentioned this in a manga autobiography he did in the
mid-late 70s; the way he showed it told me that he was experiencing
extreme culture clash. Speed Racer was cut, mostly for violence, tho'
characters still frequently died and were referred to as such. Science
Ninja Team Gatchaman was probably the first show (under the Battle
of the Planets title) to really suffer cuts due to violence. And Robotech,
well, that, while going farther than most shows, was still 3 different
shows meshed together. So even with Tenchi Muyo cut, this is nothing new
(and nothing new elsewhere either....those "storm clouds" in Japanese
Playboys being a good example ^_^). Would I put up with it? Then, since
VCRs (or the personal computer) didn't exixt in the 1960s, I had no choice.
But as I learned of the original's exixtence, if I can't get a good American

translation, I can get the originals (I have the first 16 eps of Gatchaman
from LD, for instance). Many fans who come on board now are like those
whose first experience was with the DIC'ed version of Sailor Moon. They
come onto raam and wax melodic over the show, and it is up to us crusty
old fans to tell them, or show them that they are just seeing the tip of the
iceberg.
Not by scaring them with a totally no-life, fanboyish approach, but by
presenting the facts, the pros and cons, and if they decide to come into
the fold, then that is great.

>
>
> >That is who will be the new generation of fans, and sure, we'll get
> >a few decent, intelligent people, like those who fell in love with
> >Robotech and then found Macross, or who got Galaxy Express
> >on TV and then spent many a night debating the principles of
> >honor and dignity in combat as represented by Captain Harlock.
>
> Hey, Relic, we're talking about you!

(Whur's muh cane? ^_^) Now, if I could ONLY remember the name of this
anime that was shown on American TV around 1978 or so, called Sport
somethingorother, before the so-called Sport Goofy stuff came out; This
boy was, with the help of a couplea characters from Greek myth, was
an all around athlete.....oh well....

>
> Seriously, that represents the fan that are right now about to get a
> serious job. That leaves the possibility of a better future.

Well, a number of people working in the anime/manga localization
field here in the US started as fans. Trish Ledoux and Toshi Yoshida
were fans who did synopses for anime shows, later worked on
the classic Animag (first and second incarnations) before landing
professional work with US Renditions, Animeigo (on Otaku no Video),
and then Viz (Toshi had also translated the first 3X3 Eyes for Studio
Proteus/Innovation, later reprinted at Dark Horse); Toren Smith was a
fan (Started the Cutey Bunny Fan Club around 1984 or so, before getting
work and eventually contacts in Japan that allowed him to start Studio
Proteus). Michael House worked as a fan translator (I saw a fansub
that he worked on around 1988 or so) before co-founding Animeigo
(right now he works for Gainax; he does, among other things, the
English translation of their web-site). So, being a fan, if one gets
serious enough, but still with eyes wide open, can definitely lead
to bigger, influential things.

>
>
> However, let the insiduous voice speak to you... in other words, let
> the Dark Force beckon young fans into translating and importing,
> and we might avoid troubles.
> No, the biggest problem is to counter the actual literature on teh
> market. I don't like Schodt's book, and I pested audibly when a
> professor read us the intro of Samurai from Outer Space. The girl
> that wrote that wasn't nearly involved with the Otaku phenomenon,
> it seems. Well, she does write good stuffs (I didn't proofread it, but
> I guess she does) but she introduces a concept that is nowadays
> our greatest ennemy: the concept of the American Otaku.
> (maybe she isn't the one who introduced it; I apologise to the idiot
> who did this before her)

It existed a little while before her book. I saw enough of them on raam
when I started reading on that list (when it was rec.arts.anime, around
June of 1995) to know these idiots existed a while before then (I came
on around the end of a flame war began by a moron who posted death
threats to Trish Ledoux over his dislike of her Ranma song localizations).
And shortly before that, there was an "Ultimate Otaku" contest sponsored
by Animeigo/Protoculture Addicts to promote the release of Otaku no
Video in the US (I won a copy for my submission, which, interestingly
enough, was not an example of an otaku, but an examination as to why
people become Anime Otaku in the first place; to escape. The gory
details are in PA#25, for right now, my last published work).

>
> As long as you stay a simple fan with no name and no face, I
> honnestly don't give a f*** what you consider to be otaku and what
> not; but as soon as you write a book about it, espescially as a
> pioneer, you are bount to use correct things.
>

Gilles Poitras did a book on Japanese references in anime/manga called
"The Anime Companion" (nice guy that he is, even put my name in it
(and if THAT isn't a shameless plug, I don't know WHAT is ^_^). A
good book, but very obvious that much of his references were from his
very personal favorites (much of which was Takahashi-sensei's work).
This is why, even tho' the primary book to get me interested
in manga was Manga Manga:The World of Japanese Comics, I still found
MM wanting; in an attempt to bulk up his arguements that Manga is the
Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread, he decided to denigrate American
Comics. Now, mind you, prior to reading this book (around 1984-85),
I read American comics almost exclusively (except for some shorts
that were done in Star*Reach magazine, by the guy who later edited
Manga (a one-shot attempt in 1982 to break manga into the American
market), but even tho' my prior background was American comics,
I also knew that Sturgeon's law still applied (90% or anything is crud).
He decided to do this by pointing out that titles like Sgt. Fury and Sgt.
Rock were always top sellers, even tho' Fury had been in reprints from
1974-1981, and Rock had been about a few months before the book
was pubbed, cancelled. These hadn't ever been "top" sellers, war books
having declined in sales, a large part being because the Vietnam War
permanently shattered American complacency in the armed forces.
And even more laughable was his use of titles like "Fightin' Army"
and "Fightin' Marines" being big sellers. These two titles were published
by Charlton Comics, whose entire output per year probably never sold
as well as one Spider-man book during the 60s. Inaccuracies like this made
me question whether Schodt was so deep in his love of manga that he was
made blind to the realities of comics as a whole (and, as a comics artist,
I see comics, whether done by Takahashi-sensei or Will Eisner or
Jean Giraud or Kevin O'Neill or whatever, as a legitimate art form).
Any job worth doing is worth doing well, and if one gets even a couple
of facts wrong due to sloppy detective work, their whole case is in
danger of falling apart.

I know this deviated wildly from the original post at times, but IMO, as
long as the dubbed, even hacked, TV stuff proves popular enough to get
newbies to places where crusty vets hang, then we can show them to
that "whole new world" that is out there, imperfections and all.

As usual (and very tired ^_^), this is The Relic, from the outer fringes
of the Reality that is the Ranma ML.


Search field Search string

archive list

unauthorized access prohibited
MLtools V3.1 Copyright (c) Usagi Labs