Ted the ever spork wielder said:

<>From my first hand experience that is untrue. ..<snip>. I have never
and
probablynever willbelieve that statement.>

You say it doesn't quite fit real life couples, and doesn't happen that
often. This I can attest to. However, how many times has it happened in
stories like Ranma 1/2? Plenty of times. There's a fine line between real
life and writing a story, and here you have the star-crossed lovers.
That's just the way it is.

However, the statement is true in some cases. You may have not seen
it, but I certainly have seen a guy and a girl fight, insult each other all the
time and then suddenly end up together. It happens. I've seen it happen.

<>Besides, just because someone doesn't say soemthing to someone
>doesn't mean they _never_ will. Take the Wedding Fiasco. 
But I really can't count that. Akane was under at least partial coercion
because of the barrel of Jusenkyo water.>

Ooh, toughie here. But I think it was more than coercion. In fact, I'd say
the coercion in part was so small it's too insigificant to count. The huge
part is that Akane knows Ranma loves her, got into that wedding dress
for way more reason than plain coercion or even partial coercion, and
that she loves him back.

But the main point was that Ranma would yell at Ukyou, and is capable of
insulting her. I was using Wedding Fiasco as an example that he would.

<But they are teens now.>

The original point, however, was that Ukyou has the advantage over
Akane becasue she knew him from childhood, when in fact this is void
beccause of Ranma's forgetfulness. With that point in mind, the agape
relationship theory doesn't stand.

<I disagree. Akane, fighting the boys, Ranma taking on Kuno, Ryoga
trying
to pound Ranma,taking on the Golden Pair, Shmapoo's exntrance, andthe
Martial arts Rythmic Gymnastics match would count as pretty dramaticto
any person. In Ranma 1/2 the whole story seems to revolve around
these
events. anything you might argue as a step in their relationship occurs
as an almost immediate effect of one of these events. "Akane is my
fiance. You touch her and I'll kill you!" An excitedutterance in theheat
of battle with the Golden Pair for example.>

Ok. But as what occured to me a moment later, she said "spontaneoous"
experiences, and Akane and Ranma's experiences are far from
spontaneous. You're trying to prove their relationship doesn't work
because of it, and I'm trying to prove it does work because of them.

<Now that can bring anotherargumentinto play in the fact that they have
worked togetheron so much that now thecomraderie and 'love' felt by
team members can be mistaken as love when it involves memebers of
the
oppossite sex with inexperience in such affairs.>

Only the problem with that is that everyone's on equal ground in romance
in Ranma 1/2. No one knows it better than anyone else, and everyone's
got a flaw in their view of it. If you want to purport that they're love is a
mistake due to inexperience (I believe Fil Ho used the exact same
argument a long time ago ^_^), then I could say Ukyou's love is a mistake
too, and IMO, it's an even bigger glaring error on her part because of her
misinterpretations of what Ranma has said to her and his relationshi[p
with Akane.

I think their experiences together are not detrimental to any romantic
relationship they develop, espeiclaly if that is what is ultimately the end
product in Volume 38.

<>For the Tendo/Saotome arrangement, we have one dojo. ^_^ Equal.
That's like claiming I'm heir to Standard Oil and presenting the
Rockefeller Center as evidence.>

The concept of both is still the same. The nature of the object in question
is that only thing that's different. An object is still acquired whether or not
it is before or after the arrangement goes through. The two objects were
made on the same basic terms. Thus they are of equal weight.

<It was those witnesses that caused Ukyo to change her identity. The
human brain is an amazing thing in regards to what it can remember. I'm
quite certainthat if I go back thereand question everybody I will find a
good
handful who can recall the event. >

Speculation, though. It's just as likely, even with the power of the human
brain, that they've all forgotten. A wild card in credibilitiy, and an
unreliable one, at that.

<We also have Genma admitting it. Even
Ranma's naive recollection of the event would match Genma's story.
Ukyo
clearly remembers.There's her father. So far that's four against two,
three of which I'd call credible.>

Four against four. Tendos (Mrs. and Soun) and Saotomes (Nodoka and
Genma). And anything Ranma says should be thrown out because his
connection to the event, at the time of being six, is too thin to be acquired
as any proof of its existence. Four against three.

<But how does she know? She can't say Genma or Soun told her. That's
hearsay. We can only use what witnesses experienced for themselves.
>

Can't she? I believe that in her intro, she never asked about any
engagement. In fact, she was asking questions about  Ranma of Akane
and her sisters  before she was even told or given anything about her
being his fiancee, which means she knew before. She knows to go to
the Tendo sisters to question about Ranma...because she knew about
the engagement beforehand. She also mentions the arrangement in the
little known cooking story.

Besides, common sense would dictate that Genma and Soun would not
be foolish enough to make an arrangement like this one without even
having children or even wives first. Since the engagement statement is
between a _daughter_ of Soun's and a _son_ of Genma's, we can only
conclude that they had had children at the time, which means they had
also had wives at the time who must have been told about the
arrangement. That's not hearsay. That's experience.

<How does she know?>

I just told you.

<Yes we do. We have Ukyo, Ranma, >

Ranma's out because he's not credible enough, like I said, his connection
to the event when he was six is too thin to be taken as proving it to be
true.

<Genma, and Mr. Kuonji. >

We don't know where the heck Mr. Kuonji is. I would think he would have
returned for Ukyou or the cart or both by now, but we never see him.
Now, I'm not assuming he's dead, but he may as well be, since we have
no mention of Mr. Kuonji from Ukyou and there's no way given manga
stuffs that it's possible he could be called up. Another one eliminated.

<They are our key
witnesses. Ukyo, Genma and Mr. Kuonji's stories would match. >

Mr. Kuonji is out, see above. Ukyou and Genma are still valid, though.

<Even Ranma's
naive depiction fits the pattern. >

Its not good enough. The only connection he had was a simple question
his father asked him. Nothing mentioned from him about a fiancee or
anything. If you want the question part of it, you can get it out of Genma
anyway. Ranma doesn't count otherwise.

<The townspeople can testify the Kuojis
had a yatai cart and when the Saotomes left it was gone. Further they
can
testify to the rumors they said.>

There are no names to these people, and no way to track them down.
You can't bring witnesses to the stand that you can't find or put a name
to. 

<The T/S may have come first, but you're going to have a hell of a time
proving it even existed. Your case is based solely upon two witnesses
of
questionable credibility with no hard evidence.>

Ah, you mean Soun and Genma? If so, you still have Nodoka to contend
with. That's three, and even if it could be verbal, so is the Kuonji/Saotome
arrangement. Do you have any witnesses around when they actually
said the words? No way - except for Ukyou and Ranma, and they were
just playing. It's all equal, and with Genma's words to Kuonji that Ranma's
already engaged even _he_ shows that the T/S arrangement exists first.
He wouldn't have mentioned it if it hadn't existed, right?

Other than the fact that we as the audience (and we don't count)
actually saw the frame where Kuonji and Saotome were making the
arrangement, there are no witnesses to that arrangement. It just exists.
There are no witnesses to the T/S arrangement either, since it was
apparently verbal. It too just exists. So on that note, _both_ the
arrangements have no hard witnesses except for the arrangers
themselves . And actually, the T/S case is stronger then because there
actually is another living witness - Nodoka.

If by now you've proven that Kuonji is acquireable witness, then I can
use him as well to prove my own case. After all, he heard that a T/S
engagement was first right from _Genma_...

< It's circumstantial.>

Both are, if you want to use that line of reasoning. See above.

<All I argue is the agreement has yet to be fulfilled. What I'd
do is I'd offer a deal ofuphold the original bargain and I drop the
charges. Seeing how Genma might and Ranma is with honor they'd
agree. If
that failed I would then file a civil suit and I'm sure I'd get a judge
to either order restituion of the cart (I'd throw in emotional damge just
to hike its value to Nabiki inflated prices) or fufill the agreement.>

Where's the cart, though? I'd like to see that piece of evidence
surface...^_- Despite your legal language, however, T/S still stands on
the fiancee front. You can argue all you want legally, but fact is, Genma
and Ranma don't care about the law (and neither does anyone else in
Ranma 1/2 for that matter ^_^) and the T/S engagement still stands as
primary before Kuonji/Saotome. 

Actually, I highly doubt they'd accept your offer. And even if jail time
happened, no jail would hold them for long. I'd think you'd have to confine
them to something like the Con Air plane to hold them, Ted. ^_^

--Tashibiko, aka Frank
Ranma 1/2 Library Maintainer
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/3136
Kunou: "Ukyou in feminine garb? Intriguing.."