Re: Bringing back an old thread.


to ranma@usagi.jrd.dec.com
from tsw1@juno.com
subject Re: Bringing back an old thread.
date Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:22:04 -0800
Frank:
>Ted the ever spork wielder said:
>
><Just the fact that he doesn't say things like that to Ukyo shows he's
>more couteous around her than Akane.>
>
>Have you ever heard the expression "you always hurt the one you
>love"? ^_^ Seems to be true here. Ranma's hiding his true feelings from
>Akane because he doesn't know how to deal with them. He deals with
>them by manifesting them in an insulting way.

>From my first hand experience that is untrue. Believe me if I insult
somebody and I don't smile or chuckle,or immediately make agesture to
indicate I'm joking, I don't like them.True between me and my friends we
like to bag on each otherbut we always let each other now we kid.
However, there were scores of girls in midddle school and elementary
school that I insulted constantlyand they did thesame that I would if
left alone no sooner rip their throat out. I really hated it how people
would mistakenly think I liked them. I have yet to seea real life couple
that does insult each other and still be in love. I have never and
probablynever willbelieve that statement.

>Besides, just because someone doesn't say soemthing to someone
>doesn't mean they _never_ will. Take the Wedding Fiasco. 

But I really can't count that. Akane was under at least partial coercion
because of the barrel of Jusenkyo water.The idea with Ranma was to make
it happen so quickly without his knowledgehecouldn't back out. First, you
can not trust the word of anybody under the possibility of coercion. This
applies to both the military and the law. Second,both individuals had
lost the initiative, meaning that rather than acting on their own they
were reacting in respnse to everybody elses actions.

><It's called an agape relationship. Many indivduals have a loving style
in
>which love grows from friendship. I'm not saying that it is the only
>right way,but most peoplewhofall into this category are generally
>happy.Certainly has a much higher successrate than the player.>
>
>Yeah, but the difference in this analogy is that I'm sure that rarely
this
>"friendship-romance" starts at six. I'll be betting the "agape
relationship"
>starts at the age where romance is likely to happen or start anyway (in
>the teens). Especially if the friendship has staggered like Ranma and
>Ukyou's (i.e. at six, then a huge gap of ten years, then friends again).
So
>it still doesn't make Ukyou have an advantage over Akane that she knew
>Ranma from childhood. Besides, like I said, it might as well be void
since
>Ranma forgot who she was, and then thought she was a he..!

But they are teens now.

><>Akane and Ranma also care for each other - and that love thatsurvives
>>the trials of their relationship is a lot stronger than anything Ukyou
and
>>Ranma would ever have.
>"Relationships based on dramtic expereriences don't work." Who's seen
>Speed?>
>
>I've seen it. Thought the sequel sucked. ^_^
>
>Rnama 1/2 is only a drama in the sense of looking at it from a literary
>standpoint and as a whole. On the other hand, if you take it on the
level
>of the characters, they're living out their lives, is all. Developing,
you
>could say.
>
>I wouldn't say Ranma and Akane's romance story is a "dramatic
>experience". I'd say it's more of a development of their feelings of
love,
>through many trials and hardships. Now, that could be taken as meaning
>the same thing, but I think it's not.

I disagree. Akane, fighting the boys, Ranma taking on Kuno, Ryoga trying
to pound Ranma,taking on the Golden Pair, Shmapoo's exntrance, andthe
Martial arts Rythmic Gymnastics match would count as pretty dramaticto
any person. In Ranma 1/2 the whole story seems to revolve around these
events. anything you might argue as a step in their relationship occurs
as an almost immediate effect of one of these events. "Akane is my
fiance. You touch her and I'll kill you!" An excitedutterance in theheat
of battle with the Golden Pair for example.

>Besides, Annie said that it was "sudden" and "spontaneous"
>experiences with romance being the result, that don't work. Here, we
>have 38 volumes of development, and judging from estimated timeline
>they had wayyyy more time than just one "drama-filled" day of super
>action. So my point above still stands.

Now that can bring anotherargumentinto play in the fact that they have
worked togetheron so much that now thecomraderie and 'love' felt by team
members can be mistaken as love when it involves memebers of the
oppossite sex with inexperience in such affairs.

><Yes, but just like on any resume everymarketable skill you have
>helps.It's not requiredbut think of it like being able to speak two
>languages and the other applicants can't.>
>
>Ah, but the big disanalogy here is that applying for a job is not the
same
>as being a fiancee for someone (and an arranged one, at that)! It's not
>required. Thus there's no advantage over Akane.
>
>Ranma probably would prefer if Akane could cook, but doesn't seem to
>care if she does one way or the other so long as she loves him and he
>loves her.

i never claim it is a reason. Cooking is just another advantagewhich Ukyo
can use to get Ranma. I'd never say he'd pick Ukyo soley on her culinary
ability. But like I said, it is something Akane can't do. To win you must
apply your maximum resources on your opponents weakest point. Cooking is
simply one of Ukyo's strengths while it is Akane's Achilles heel. Much
like our command structure is America's strong points while it was Iraq's
Achilles heel in Desert Storm.

><There is still no evidence of this arrangement while in the case of
Ukyo
>we have one yatai cart. >
>
>For the Tendo/Saotome arrangement, we have one dojo. ^_^ Equal.

That's like claiming I'm heir to Standard Oil and presenting the
Rockefeller Center as evidence.

><There are no witnesses to the arrangement other
>than Soun and Genma as oppossed to the wholetown knowing about
>Ukyo's fiance running out on her and taking thefamily business. >
>
>And how many of those witnesses would remember a town happening
>that happened over 10 years ago? Next to none, I'd say, especially since
>Ukyou moved away soon after.

It was those witnesses that caused Ukyo to change her identity. The human
brain is an amazing thing in regards to what it can remember. I'm quite
certainthat if I go back thereand question everybody I will find a good
handful who can recall the event. We also have Genma admitting it. Even
Ranma's naive recollection of the event would match Genma's story. Ukyo
clearly remembers.There's her father. So far that's four against two,
three of which I'd call credible.

>Nodoka and Mrs. Tendo are very likely witnesses to the Tendo/Saotome
>arrangement, seeing as Nodoka knew about the arrangement when she
>first appeared. Equal again.

But how does she know? She can't say Genma or Soun told her. That's
hearsay. We can only use what witnesses experienced for themselves. 

><Also the credibility of the only two witnesses for Saotome/Tendo
isquestionable
>since they have a long record of using deception to get Ranma and
>Akane together. >
>
>Nodoka is very credible. I haven't seen an instance where she needed to
>lie about anything.

How does she know?

>Plus, like I said above, you really have no real witnesses for the
>Kuonji/Saotome case. 

Yes we do. We have Ukyo, Ranma, Genma, and Mr. Kuonji. They are our key
witnesses. Ukyo, Genma and Mr. Kuonji's stories would match. Even Ranma's
naive depiction fits the pattern. The townspeople can testify the Kuojis
had a yatai cart and when the Saotomes left it was gone. Further they can
testify to the rumors they said.

><The Dojo Destroyer ploy comes to mind. What Genma commited with
>Kuonji is called fraud, a felony crime. Really I'd think by now you KTF
>would have learned on the legal front Kuonji/Saotome will always win. 
>>
>
>But on the fiancee front, Tendo/Saotome wins. ^_^ It's equal on both
>sides, except in temporal placement, and T/S came first. Thus, T/S and
>Ranma and Akane, are the valid arrangement. You could throw Genma in
>jail for fraud, but that still doesn't change the fact that the
Ranma/Akane
>arrangement is the more valid one.

The T/S may have come first, but you're going to have a hell of a time
proving it even existed. Your case is based solely upon two witnesses of
questionable credibility with no hard evidence. It's circumstantial. If
we threw Genma in jail that would soil Saotome honor. Now this can be
averted. All I argue is the agreement has yet to be fulfilled. What I'd
do is I'd offer a deal ofuphold the original bargain and I drop the
charges. Seeing how Genma might and Ranma is with honor they'd agree. If
that failed I would then file a civil suit and I'm sure I'd get a judge
to either order restituion of the cart (I'd throw in emotional damge just
to hike its value to Nabiki inflated prices) or fufill the agreement.

-Ted Wang


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