> >ALL RIGHT! THAT DOES IT! NOW I WANT TO KNOW FROM WHERE DO YOU GET THE
> >NOTION THAT RANMA IS NASTY?
> >From his behavior, obviously.  Where else?

In other words, you don't take into account everything that he has said and
done.

> >I'D LIKE TO KNOW **ALL** INSTANCES YOU SAY POINT TO THAT
CONCLUSION!!!!!!
> Okay, I'll discuss some of them below.
> >RANMA IS **NOT** A COWARD,
> Yeah, right.  Then why can't he tell Akane his true feelings and tell
Ukyou
> and Shampoo to leave him alone?  Because he's a *coward.*  He has a
> responsibility, and he *does not face up to it.*

He tries, but can *anyone* do it with all the pressure that he's under?!
The way he was raised taught him nothing about how to show affection, he
usually shows his real feelings by action, especially when he isn't
thinking about them and occasionally he admits it when saving Akane, when
he tries to tell Akane how he feels, he mostly doesn't know how to go about
it, and usually gets interrupted. He told Shampoo that he didn't love her,
but she came back from China, but by then, Ranma saw how hurt Shampoo was,
and just didn't want to hurt her anymore. Ranma doesn't tell off Ukyo
because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings like he unknowingly did to
Shampoo. Ranma is under pressure by four different women, and he doesn't
want to hurt any of their feelings therefore, the issue is always avoided.
It's easier for him to face off against a eight-headed monster than it is
to openly show his feelings.

> > WHEN HE LIES, HE IS JUSTIFIED, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CHARACTER
> "Ryoga, I'm your fiance!"  Yeah, there's a hell of a lot of reasoning for

Same kind of reasoning for when other character lies, they didn't find
another way of doing things.

> that.  Ryoga wasn't doing anything other than trying to ask out the girl
he
> loved, which is a hell of a lot more than Ranma can say.  All that was on
> Ranma mind was, "So they think they're gonna have a date, eh?  Not when I
> get through with 'em!"

He got jealous, everything that he heard about the date pointed to Akane
just wanting to go out with Ryoga and dumping him, the event affected Ranma
more than he would admit and in wanting to get Akane to drop Ryoga, he
resorted to pretending to be Ryoga's fiancee because that was to him, the
best way to keep Ryoga and Akane from each other.

> And there's the time he pretended to be Ryoga's sister, to the same ends.
> I'd love to hear how those were justified.

This was just after Ryoga used Ranma as a pathfinder just to get to his
house and meet Akane. Again jealousy spurred the impersonation, Ranma
doesn't want anything to happen between Ryoga and Akane.

> Or how about his broken promises to Ukyou?  What has she done to him to

What broken promises?

> justify his lying to her?  Nothing. Therefore, the man is being a lying 

Lying about what? The truth of the ten year sauce? He was afraid, afraid
that he would lose a friend, he doesn't have many friends so he doesn't
want to lose any, he didn't want to disappoint Ukyo and in the end he took
responsibility for it.

> piece of scum. Having a girl like Ukyou care about him's a lot damn more

That 'lying piece of scum' as you call him, doesn't lie to that degree that
you are implying. Others lie as well, as do maybe all the people in the
world, so why are you singling him out? If he is a 'lying piece of scum'
for lying to not hurt somebody, what are those who lie to lie blatantly
just to resolve themselves of blame for any actions and lie to take credit
for any praise?

> than he deserves, but he doesn't care about that, either, because he's a
> thoughtless brat.

He cares enough to not hurt her feelings, and he'd rather have Akane care
for him instead. So that 'thoughtless brat' part is doesn't have any solid
basis.

> > HE DOESN'T CHEAT ANYMORE THAN ANY OTHER CHARACTER DOES,
> He cheats a lot more than someone like Ryoga or Ukyou does.  The only

Not really, when are the instances? What do you refer to as cheating.

> character that is slimier than Ranma is Genma (and that's debatable;

I think that all the characters are a lot less slimier than you think any
of them would be. Ranma has never stooped to Genma's level, and has taken
responsibilities for Genma's, Soun's and Happosai's mistakes & grievances
and doesn't run from them.

> they're pretty close); at least Happousai is obvious as to what he's
doing.

I doubt Happosai cares much about what others think, he has self-justified
his own actions.

> > HE DOES **NOT** BULLY, HE HAS MORE HONESTY THAN WHOLE A LOT OF OTHER
> >CHARACTERS AND IS NO MORE ABUSIVE THAN ANY OF THE OTHER CHARACTERS!!!!!
> He lies quite often, and he abuses Ukyou and Akane (and Shampoo, to a

And how often is often?

> lesser extent) continually.  He's got a responsibility to both of them,
and
> he shirks it.  Pathetic. 

And what is your notion of abuse? Ranma doesn't want to hurt any of them at
all. As the situation stands, if he chooses anyone, he would end up hurting
the others emotionally. He can't bear to see a girl cry, so basically he
hopes that the other girls would just forget about him and find somebody
else. Hence his 'pathetic' stalling.

> Yeah, he's not more abusive than any of the other characters.  Right.
> Kasumi's an awful person, isn't she?  And how about the o-so-evil Soun
> Tendo, who's house Ranma continually wrecks? 

Kasumi doesn't abuse anyone at all. Soun occasionally helps to wreak his
own house while kicking Ranma out of it, often for things that are beyond
Ranma's control. So Soun isn't totally innocent too.


> >I'VE SAID IT BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN EVERY TIME; RANMA ***IS*** A
NICE
> >GUY!!! HE IS **NOT** LIKE HIS FATHER!!!  RANMA HAS ALWAYS BEEN NOBLE AND
> >GOODHEARTED!!!!
> He's better than his father, but not by much, and he's still pretty damn

He's better than his father by a large margin. He has the responsibilities
of four people on his shoulders and he doesn't run from it. It shows a
*LOT* of integrity for a teenager.

> scummy.  He's got a fairly good heart, but that isn't what guides him in
> most cases.  The few that it has - the Musk Dynasty story arc, for
instance
> - he's a pretty decent, honorable guy.

Ranma has shown a good heart in all the stories he has been in. Ranma has
never held a grudge, never let others get bullied and always helps others.

> >IN ALL OUR DISCUSSIONS, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO BE POLITE, EVERY TIME YOU
STATE
> >THAT RANMA IS LESS THAN NICE, I HAVE ALWAYS DISPUTED THOSE POINTS. NOW,
I
> >WANT TO KNOW, WHERE DO YOU KEEP GETTING THIS IDEA THAT RANMA IS SO
> >NASTY??!!
> Gee, it couldn't be because he *is,* could it?  Probably not for you

No, it couldn't be.

> because you're just a Ranma fanboy who's intention is to excuse all
Ranma's
> actions.

I *AM* a Ranma fanboy. I'm *also* an Akane fanboy, a Ryoga one, Ukyo's,
Mousse's, Shampoo's, basically I really like mostly all the characters and
I'd rather none of them get insulted unjustly. If I can excuse Ranma's
actions, I can excuse any of them, which is why I don't attack your
favorite characters. Even Happosai does a good thing once in a while. I
don't excuse *all* of Ranma's actions, I know that he brings about some of
his bruises, and I *have* stated so before. This line of reasoning that I
am a 'Ranma fanboy and because of that all his actions are excused' is
unjustified and unfounded.

> How about the Secret Sauce story?  Were his actions with Ukyou
acceptable?

He consoled Ukyo, lied to cheer her up, get wacked for helping her and
doesn't complain, prevented her from getting poisoned by the sauce, tried
to keep her happy to the best of his ability, admitted his fault to her,
try to get her to hate him, drank all the sauce. With the way things came
out, his solutions were acceptable.

> Or the HSH storyline, where he nearly killed Ryoga - and didn't give a
damn

He never went that far, and even he thought he did kill Ryoga, he was
thankful for Ryoga's help, sorrowful for the wounds he had caused him with
the Hiryu Shoten Ha and he was even saying an eulogy before he found out
that Ryoga's alive. Ranma does care, no matter how he manages to convey it,
he has shown it.

> whether Ryoga was alive or dead - after Ryoga had just saved his hide? 
Or

After Ryoga saved him, Ranma wondered if he was there to take his
frustration out on him just like the others before, Ranma didn't know what
to expect after all the times Ryoga has tried to kill him. He didn't get to
say thanks because immediately after, Ryoga said something which Ranma felt
that implied that he was weak. As for hitting Ryoga, I guess Ryoga wanted
proof that Ranma couldn't couldn't hurt anyone physically any more.

> the Asuka of the White Lillies mess?  Or the Dougi story (yeah, I found
out

And how was he responsible for that mess??

> more about that storyline - it seems that Ranma was trying to seduce
Akane

The fact that he tried was inexcusable. The fact that he couldn't shows
that it's against what he believes.

> to get rid of the suit)?  I guess you excuse him for those, too, because
> you're such a devoted Ranma fanboy, right?

Yes, I do, for the ones that aren't his fault, just as I will excuse any
characters who aren't to blame for their actions. And this fanboy doesn't
believe in  attacking any other characters to promote his own. Ranma does
the best he can in the situation he was thrown in, I hardly believe that he
should be blamed for that. Think about what would happen if another
character was in the same situation with all the same strings and
entanglements surrounding Ranma shifted to that character, how would that
character go about doing things, with all the skills, talents and mentality
that they possesses, none more none less? Exclude all characters that you
are biased towards or against, they usually won't get a proper
representation. Now, how many others would come out the same as Ranma, how
many better and how many worse? Sure, Ranma isn't perfect, but none of the
others are too. He makes mistakes, but he's only human. Others make
mistakes, but they are only human. I make mistakes, but I am only human. We
make mistakes, but we are only human.

> Pathetic. <snort>  And let off the caps.  They make you look like an
idiot.

Well, this 'pathetic idiotic' looking person only used caps for that one
post.

Roderick Swee