At 02:33 AM 07/27/1998 +0900, The Newcomer <doc13@student.canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:
>------- Message
>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:24:54 +1300
>From: The Newcomer <doc13@student.canterbury.ac.nz>
>Subject: Re: a Very offended Ed....
>
<stuff snipped to save space>
>> 
>> 	However all art is about interpretation and your interpretation may 
>> differ from mine.  And by definition all Fan-Fiction is an interpretation 
>> of another's work.  Applying iron rules (especially your rules to my art) 
>> to art only stifles (if not destroy) art.  If mine interpretation is too 
>> different from yours it is possible that you will not like my art (story), 
>> that is up to you, but it does not invalidate my work, yet as we will see 
>> below that seems to be your intent.
>We agreed on the Ranma Ml that, whilst there should be no such thing as 
>"Iron rules", there are guidelines that, if you're going to break, you 
>should have a better reason / more plausable than usual explaination  than 
>"Poetic licence" or "I felt like it". Does everyone agree with this 
>concept?

	No. (And we might have to agree to not agree on this point) The 
writer is free to do as he feels.  It is up to the reader to either accept 
or reject his premiss, to either enjoy or not enjoy the story. I
have yet to read a Ranma fan-fic that in MY OPION had the same feel as the
original, but then I gave up reading Ranma Fan-fics several years ago, so the
state of the Ranma fan-fic might have improved.

> 
>> 	Why do we use your level of competence in Japanese as the measure 
>> on which to base the use of Japanese in our stories?  If we where to
agree to
>> such a rule (which we will not) we would need a much more quantifiable
>> measure.
>Umm, like Sam said, I suck at Japanese (-_-), and it just leads me to 
>wonder why people-in-general feel the need to use japanese in their fics 
>when they're worse than even I am.
>(This is not to imply that you are in any way worse at Nehongo than I am, 
>but this is one of the many quite-possibly-mistaken imprsessions I 
>received)

	I am dumb founded as to how you came to this very quite possibly 
incorrect conclusion based on my stories.  [Possibly incorrect as I do not
know your level of copency, but if you describe your self as "sucking" at
Japanese, then we can assume that I had a better versed in Japanese than
you are.]
Compared to most stories I use VERY little Japanese in my
stories, even when my editors have suggested I use more.  Please Cite an
example where I have used or cited a Japanese word improperly.  [No need
to do a detailed analyst, just cite ONE example.]

<stuff snipped to save space>
>I HONESTLY was not truly trying to upset them, just state my mind.
>Since we've gotten off on a bad foot, I apologise completely and 
>unreservedly for anything I have said and done, and anything I will say or 
>do, as, being me, there's no way I can avoid saying something equally 
>offensive in the future....
>
>> 	Which you have done a good job of doing.  I do not think there
>> is anything lose about it.
>Gomen! AFAI was concerned, that WAS loose (for me at least): I had avoided 
>mentioning any names until that point.
>I would just like to point out why you shouldn't take anything i say as 
>truly offensive: unlike you, I have yet to complete even _one_ fanfic
>(although I'm nearing completion of one, and have started another),
>which allows you to disparage my name as much as you want.
>> 
>> >I found dozens of what I (quite possibly mistakenly) viewed as glaring 
>> >errors throughout all for of his fics that I read....

	Please point out ONE, just ONE error in my stories, because I do
not know exactly what it is that is bothering you. 

>Hey! Its impolite to point out _spelling_ (or grammatical) mistakes in ML 
>writing. I could point out some of yours if we're going to nitpick.

	That was low of me, and I assume it was just a typo.  And I admit I 
can not spell, never had, never will, my brain is just wired wrong to spell
English.

>> to art only stifles (if not destroy) art.  If mine interpretation is too 
>					^^^^^ Destroys? ^^ _My_ interpretation?
> I could point out multiple more, but like I said, its not polite.
>
>> 	This is a very inflammatory state that you do not backup with
>> actually noted examples, please provide on or more.
>One or more? Well I considered going through a fic and providing a large 
>list, but I considered _that_ to rude and inflamatory to disect every 
>niggle I had. If you really _would_ apreciate such a harsh critique of 
>your hard work, I could re-read one or two of your fics, and write 
>something down, If you like...


	Just one or two examples so that I can understand what your problem is.
So far you have only made what could be interpreted as slanderous [but I
will give
you the benefit of doubt on this point] with out any backing to your point.
 Send
them to me and not the list if you wish.

<stuff snipped.
>
>> 	Look at the art work on pages 113 & 114 of volume 2 it is pretty obvious
>> that the structures are not of earth.  The "priest" on page 114 is
dressed as
>> neither a Buddhist Monk nor a Shinto Priest.  
>Who said he had to be either? Or a nordic preist for that matter?
>My personal theory was just that they were some religeous cult that sprung 
>up to worship the megami, which the megami were somewhat embarased 
>about...(^_-) (otaku fans of the era, perchance?)

	Please think this through, this occurs before Belldandy grants Keiichi
his wish.


>> >Shows how much I know about japanese.
>> >However, in this case, it was almost certainly out of context.
>> >I think K1 said it...
>> 
>> 	Does any one know where this is form, because of the way the 
>> following paragraph is it seems to imply that it appears in one of
>> my Stories.  (And I will concede that is this point I am on a short
>> fuse.)
>Sorry dude! It may (or very well may not ) have been from one of your 
>fics, but I was _trying_ to comment on fanfiction in general, and this was 
>an occurance that I had come across.

	And I have stated that it DID NOT come from me, yet you continue to 
imply that it might have.  (Keiichi calling Belldandy "bell-kun"
>
>> >Sorry for the Flame, Ed, but I got some impressions through your fics,
>> >like you based your knowledge of Japan upon one or two unreliable books,
>> 
>> 	This is highly inflammatory and is not phrased in a constructive 
>> manner but as a personal insult. 
>I'm very bad at phrasing myself in a non-deconstructive fasion.
>Sorry, i'm just like that. (Most of the time at least...),I don't TRY to 
>be annoying/rude/inflamatory, it just comes out like that.
>Like I said, untill I have finished a fanfic of my own, I have the utmost 
>of respect for anyone who can actually finsh a work of fanfiction.
>
>> 	Please cite an example to back this ill-informed statement.  As for
>> my knowledge of Japan you are the only person who has ever even hinted that
>> my knowledge less than truthful.  I have never been to Japan so I must 
>> based my knowledge on second had sources, and my knowledge is only as 
>> good as my sources.  However my sources are a little more extensive than
>> just two books, and include but are not limited to the owners of the 
>> local Sushi bar (both immigrants from Japan).  Several Pen-Pals in 
>> Japan over the years, et cetera.
>Sorry again. I haven't been to Japan either, (although amoungst my sources 
>I'm fortunate enough to have the numerous Japanese homestay girls who
>who my mother has been renting the spare room to for the past 6-8 years.
>(It's amazing: all this Japanese influence, yet I'm still WELL below 
>second-year standards in Japanese language skills).
>I made the (understandably offensive, i suppose) conclusion of "two books" 
>because they seemed to be quoted exclusively, and (for reasons I can't 
>remember) I had reasons not to entirely trust the information from one of 
>those books....

	As far as I can tell I have cited two different books once each in only
one of my stories, if there is something wrong with my foot notes regarding
"Tadaima" and "Oironaoshi"  please be specific in how they are inaccurate.  
Otherwise please do not jump to conclusions because you vaguely feel that you
can not trust my source.

>
>> >You quote Shakespeare exessively (fine if you're Kuno),
>> 	you Do not know me well enough to make such a blanket statement,
>> I have been quoting the Bard over 30 years, both in my fiction, non-fiction
>> and in my day to day conversations, long before Kuno.  As for having Urd
>> quote Shakespeare, it is simply stylistic trait of mine.  Urd does quote
>> the Bard in the second OAV.  It is simply my style, but I understand not 
>> everyone cares for it.  I wonder how many of them you would recognize if I
>> did not footnote them.  Sorry if that is a little inflammatory.
>Hey, when you're as (unintentionally) as obnoxious as I am, it takes an 
>awful lot to get me up in arms. (If everyone in the world was like me 
>(perish the thought), we'd all be thouroughly offensive, but all of us 
>would be too thick skinned to know how offensive everybody else was (^_-) 
>I consider myself reasonably cultured (I'm sure I can hear Sam snickering 
>at that), and, whilst I can't speak for everyone else, I feel I would have 
>gotten (the majority at least) of the quotes without footnoting.

	I think I phrased this incorrectly, the point I was trying to make
was if the quotes where not footnoted would they be less noticeable and less
distracting?

>What did become 'painful' however was using the same quotes more than 
>once... ("Methinks the lady doth protest" for one).
>After reading one of your fics (I was in a rotten mood at the time so 
>don't take this to heart), I said to my self "grumble grumble. 
>Shakespeare's good & all, but if I wanted to read about him, I'd read 
>King Lear, not A!MG fanfiction.....grumble grumble"

	This is getting closer to a legitimate criticism, "I found the 
quoting footnoting of Shakespeare distracting and interrupted my train of
thought while reading."

>(Did Urd quote the Bard in the _Japanese_ version? Even if she did, one 
>quote vs. your......some)
>
>> >are a Skuld fan, nuetral to Bell, and don't really like Urd that much...
>> 	Is being a Skuld fan a bad thing?
>Not to a Skuld fan I presume (^_-)
>>  You make it sound like it.  However
>> I do not consider myself a Skuld fan.  It just happens that my stories 
>> have centered around her.  As for Urd, I love Urd like a sister.  I
probably
>> understand Urd better than the other two sisters, however my INTERPERTATION
>> of her comes across a bit strong.  As for Belldandy, she and Keiichi are 
>> what drew me to the series and continues to.  However I can not argue with
>> you over your impression.

	But I suggest you re-read "Interlude" and the end of Donner and see
if you still feel I hate Urd and am neutral towards Bell and K1.

>My memory fails me: was it you or another writer that had their fiction 
>set approximately four years into the characters future?

	If is set after OVA #5 "For the Love of Goddess" and Volume Nine
of the Manga (chapter 57).  My stories should be looked at as an Alternate
history that breaks away from original at that point. 

>If it _wasn't_  you that did this, then I think I had some problems with 
>the way Skulds personality was dealt with, Urd aside. 


	Please Cite an example of what you mean like this.
<stuff snipped>

>> >BTW, if this doesn't reach them, could somebody post this to the 
>> >respective addys?
>> 	I did not know my email address was so obscure, I have only 
>> had it for about 11 years now.
>Y'don't say much here though: 11 years sure, but this is the very second 
>post I recall hearing from ya, dude!

	I posted seven or eight times in July of this year.
<stuff snipped>

ed
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